Press "Enter" to skip to content

Season 2, Episode 21, Transcribed: Prepare for the ‘L-Shaped’ Recovery, With David Neuhauser

Nathaniel E. Baker 0:36
Okay. David Neuhauser of Livermore Partners. Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. The economic recovery, the “V shape,” is effectively priced into markets. As we record this on Thursday, June 25. The S&P 500 is up well over 30% off its lows. It seems that there is very little that can upend this buying mentality on Wall Street from investors, whether those investors are people of the Robin Hood crowd or more of the larger institutions, which is another question for another day. But your views here are a lot more bearish. And you are anticipating an L shaped recovery, which is a bit of a misnomer because if it is an L shape, then it doesn’t really recover, does it? So, I’d be really interested in having you lay out your views here for us.

David Neuhauser 1:42
Yeah, for sure, Nate, and thanks for having me. I mean, the way you look at it as you have to still look at you know, markets is just like economies run in cycles. And if you look at the past decade, as we’ve known it’s been predicated on low interest rates which has caused you know, By central banks that has caused, obviously economic development and along with tax cuts, and and that’s where we’ve seen the massive amounts of stimulus, which has fueled growth for a number of years. All that’s great. We obviously seen now with covid 19, that that’s been up ended. And the fight that of course, we’ve seen massive economic stimulus from both government and the Federal Reserve. And that, of course, is helping propel markets. But I do think there’s two, you know, there’s two things you have to look at. One is the economy, as they say, and there’s one that there’s the markets, and from an economic standpoint, even with vaccine, which, you know, at a bull case, I would say you’re talking about 12 months or 18 months from now, you’re still going to look at sustainable, higher levels of unemployment, you’re still going to see a lot lower economic activity, you’re still going to see no just less overall activity in the economy in terms of retail in terms of Travel and Leisure in terms of purchases, and When you include that all in to where we’ve been to where we are today, and where we’re going, you have to look at it and say, you know, big picture, you know, we most likely have seen the best days behind us in the past, you know, five or 10 years and going forward, it’s gonna be a rough road.

Nathaniel E. Baker 3:17
And do you anticipate there to be a drop in the market? Or just more of just like sideways activity, as we’ve maybe seen here more lately?

David Neuhauser 3:25
Yeah, I think I think you’re gonna see some sideways activity in the near term, because one is the market sort of got its footing under its feet. Short term, we had this again, we went from this big bull cycle to a very quick bear cycle. And, you know, we had a massive reset in the market, which saw, you know, the S&P tank 1000 points, which obviously took us down about 220 on the spy index, and now we’re back up to just over 300 and normally people look at that, and that equates to it to the sort of V recovery In the markets led by a number of fed stimulus, but I still think a there’s been bad behavior going on in the market as far as the talk of some retail traders popping up who, you know, have have capital and they’ve seen this before where you buy every dip and you get rewarded. And I think short term, they have been rewarded if you’ve taken the plunge, I think you just have to look at it over the next, you know, a year or two or three, and I think it’s going to be much more challenging. So I expect the markets to be relatively range bound in the short run. I think any dynamic just like you saw last week with higher second wave of COVID taking place is going to cause more economic pain and dust you know, you’ll see pull backs to the markets like we’re seeing

Nathaniel E. Baker 4:41
What if the Fed does come in and say start something really unconventional like buying stocks, they’ve done just about everything else. That would obviously be a big boost for the market. And some people might say that that’s the markets already expecting this like this is already priced in but what do you think about that or at other Other fiscal things that might happen, right, like an infrastructure bill. I mean, let’s not get into the politics of whether that’s feasible, but the things like that, you know, more more, you know, relief measures for unemployed people or for others. What do you think about all that? Wouldn’t that boost the market?

David Neuhauser 5:18
You know, I think there’s things they can still do. You know, obviously, I think there’s still some gunpowder left from both the Fed and of course, government. But I think the the, you know, Fed is clearly stating that we need to see more from government than the Fed at this point, the Fed has done just about everything possible they can do to, you know, really juice the markets, which, to me is there’s a bit more haphazard in that statement, because you know, one thing buying, you know, corporate bonds is another thing, buying things like junk bonds, and then there’s a huge step if you would actually start to buy equities of companies. So you know, to me, a market should function in a cash capitalistic manner. And when a company makes bad bets and puts on big leverage and things go wrong, they should suffer the consequences as should their shareholders. And I think that’s what capitalism is all about is that, you know, you have this reset during times in which people make bad decisions and when times make, you know, good decisions, they’re going to get rewarded, and they’re going to grow shareholder value over time. So I think the Fed is really up ending that model by throwing this massive amounts of stimulus in areas of the market and if they would do so in equities I you know, I think that in some degree that’s a bit priced in you have the Fed put where people believe the market will not fall substantially anymore because of the Fed and ultimately, they’ll be the buyer of last resort. I don’t think that’s going to happen. I think that’s a huge leap. And I think today, there’s a lot of foolish behavior going on in the market and ultimately they’re going to pay

Nathaniel E. Baker 6:58
How much of that do you think is already priced in? This expectation that yeah, the Fed put. Do you think that there is an element of that in the market today?

David Neuhauser 7:07
Oh, for sure. I mean that look, they if you look at a trailing or even a go forward basis, even with a rebound and say economic activity over the next two years, three years, four years, you still get to, you know, have an inflated S&P. price to earnings ratio. And I just don’t see that being sustainable. So you have to keep believing that things are going to recover the same way they will. They were before. And I don’t see that happening. I mean, even though the Fed is there in terms of saying they’re not raising rates for the next few years, that’s only going to go so far. So you’ve had mortgage refinancings, which has been massive. You’ve had other you know, credit issues come up as far as stimulus as far as unemployment benefits have been extended. You’ve seen the PPP bill which has been very successful. All these things are great to see from our government to help keep economic activity going? The question is, can we start on our own to get the train kind of on the right track and start to see that build into its own growth rate? And that I think is going to be the question. And I think ultimately, that’s not going to occur the way it is. So we’re going to see this period, in my view of very low, you know, to no growth for a number of years. And that’s right, I see that L shape occurring. And as far as the markets, I think, eventually they’re going to take that cue or once they see that they’re not going to see the type of growth and they’re not going to see the kind of of you know, further interest from the Fed I’ll say the prop up their equity prices and the economy, I think then all of a sudden, you’re going to start to see that a massive reset of stocks, especially the stocks that have taken on this life of their own which is mainly attack, that is money losing tax, these are names that all sudden Are you know, massive Companies like Tesla, things like carvanha, which makes no money and you know, the disruptors that we’ve heard about for the number of years, those are the stocks that have done really well. And I think ultimately, if you own those companies anywhere around today’s valuation, it’s going to be a real challenge.

Nathaniel E. Baker 9:16
Yeah, this all raises the question, and you touched on it. Where does an investor go with his or her money in this at this stage?

David Neuhauser 9:24
Yeah. So what’s interesting is, you know, when you’re talking about being a contrarian, you know, typically you’re trying to buy things low, that are out of favor thinking that eventually they’re going to reset back at least to a mean, if not actually potentially higher. Right. And what’s funny, I think today is that contrary and today, it means the complete opposite of what it normally does. So my contrarian bet is I think some of the things that have worked in the past 10 years, which again, goes back to the same thing, the bubble stocks have you have high growth, high value, mainly money losing, you know, innovative technology shares are going to be the ones that are going to be suffer. I think that’s the contrarian bet to bet against those companies. And I think the ones you want to own as the contrarian are the ones that yes, are a bit boring. They’re things that are like we’ve talked about hard assets and sectors like, you know, materials and gold and mining and oil and gas, things that people feel that have limited upside, typically given the massive oversupply on air. So they’re boring situations. But again, Livermore, we’re looking for those specific companies, special situations, event driven, where we can, you know, invest in those companies, be patient capital and watch for the value to be unlocked, whether it be in a passive manner or whether it be a proactive manner, but I think those are the areas of value today, right? And that’s been something that hasn’t been rewarded for a long time. Now. And I think if you look out over the next few years from today, right now, you’ll see those sectors will either a hold up extremely well or to actually inflate Well, as you see their inflation or stagflation take hold in the next few years.

Nathaniel E. Baker 11:14
Cool. I want to get some specifics from you on that. See if we can get some more information on the types of situations you’re involved with and some stock picks as well. But let’s first take a short break.

Moderator 11:29
You are listening to the Contrarian Investor Podcast. You’re on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and other platforms where podcasts are found. Subscribe and supply an honest rating. We on social media search for Contrarian Investor Podcast on Twitter and Instagram. You can find us on LinkedIn as well go to We want to hear from our listeners. email your thoughts to A repository of all podcasts episodes and materials is available on our website Now, back to the program. Here’s Mr. Baker.

Nathaniel E. Baker 12:11
Okay, welcome back. We are back for the second half with David Neuhauser of Livermore partners, very excited to have you on the podcast. This is the section of the show, where our guests tells us a little bit more about themselves, about their background, how they got into investing, and their career to date. So let’s hear it from you. How did things start? And how did they transpire to get you where you are now?

David Neuhauser 12:38
Yeah, that’s a great question. So I got started in finance, just back in university, which I went to school here in Chicago at Northeastern Illinois, and, you know, graduated in economics and just took a real passion and finance and you know, from there I ultimately got a job at the Chicago Stock Exchange which is downtown and worked and Market regulation which is kind of like catching the bad guys, some of the specialists on the floor at the time would front run traders and things like that. So I got a taste, you know, from firsthand on the floor. And there I met some a number of the traders that were doing different type of trading techniques including arbitrage trading, which I ran to a group then which was a young group that was extremely successful and you know, they made a lot of money with their their hedge fund strategies, which was risk arb and that really in you know, interested me and from there kind of my usual nature of being inquisitive is I reached out to someone at the firm and ultimately went to go work for that group for a number of years where I kind of learned my forte into you know, activist investing, contrarian investing as far as looking at no value and and also short selling at times, which we employ when we look at you know, unique situations to profit from downside or as a hedging tool so we don’t necessarily have to be short. It’s just one of the things that I’ve learned over the years. So you know, my 20 plus year career, that’s some of the things Nate I’ve been focused on. And and from there, you know, I broke off on my own and became a member of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange and learn more of commodities type trading there on my own for about five years, I was a member. And then in 2009, I started Livermore, which was mainly like a consulting company because I had some of my own capital, but I didn’t really have a lot of contacts. So at that time, I kind of reached out to different groups like private equity and others, which I didn’t know and I was able to find deals and look at special situations in which I would personally invest capital in and by 2000, you know, 14, 15, 16, I was running into a number of situations similar to my time again at the previous Fund. The group of guys I worked with there is that I needed a capital to execute and started an LP and We have the LP and we move forward now I’m making a number investments and are the hedge funds been operational for, you know, four or five years. We’re small hedge fund Livermore partners but we’re very dynamic and you know, we’ve we’ve accomplished a lot I would think in our short track record. We’ve run about eight activist processes in the past number of years. You know, we sit on three different boards including jadestone energy, which years ago was an activist process itself and today it’s a you know, $300 million market cap company in London that’s free cash flow with no debt and nice cash balance. And and that and other situations we’ve involved in which we’ve discussed in the past things like detour goal, which was our last activist process with john Paulson and Company, which was very successful, ultimately sold to Kirkland Lake just last year, we made over 100% return on investment in about 18 months, and I just saw I’m using my time as far as my History, you know, in investing, what I learned is, you know, investing can humble you really bad in terms of you know, you, you do things really well at times, and you have great success. And then you think it’s always going to be that way. And some of the things I’ve been talking to my son about today is I tell him like, things aren’t always going to be good, and you have to prepare. So I always try to look at the downside and look at things that can happen to alter sort of the landscape of a company or the the market and, and we look at that being first and foremost. And then of course, I want the optionality, so to speak as far as the upside. So we’ve been able to capture that, again, with a number of very specific companies over the last, you know, four or five years now. And you know, the goal is to keep growing Livermore but yet be a nimble, event driven hedge fund that could do a number of different things, you know, things that we can change the sort of strategy and dynamics of a company. Also make bold bets at times which are more conscious traded and you know, make strong absolute returns, which has been extremely difficult. And in a market that’s like said being juiced up by the Federal Reserve and low interest rates, but we were able to manage through it. You know, this year has been tougher than last year, which we did extremely well. It’s the best year ever for Livermore to date. And we’ve had some, you know, really big up years, which have been phenomenal. Yeah, we’ve had a few down years. And the goal is to try to look for no situations again, we can have that huge, up a year and have that big tail move and equities and then situations and that’s kind of what I strive for on a go forward basis.

Nathaniel E. Baker 17:40
Interesting, what percentage of the fund is or what maybe what percentage of your time is dedicated to activist campaigns? versus you know, I guess what would the other event driven trading or special situations type of stuff? I guess activism is special situations. But yeah

David Neuhauser 17:57
yeah, it is. But I think for activists I’m not we’re not an activist fund where our our mandate is activist situations just to affect change. Right. So activism has come up in the past, because I’m a first and foremost a value investor. So when I find a value situation that I’m actually very intrigued by and interested in, I try to figure out why is there a disconnect to the market? You know, it’s easy to say there’s a lot of value. Sometimes there’s a very good reason why there’s, you know, the stock is is not priced the way it should be. And you really have to figure that out. So what we’ve run across, I would say, again, in my history, is that some situations, there’s companies again, I’m not talking stocks, I’m saying companies that we invest in, have a lot of value. And the issue is the stock price is not reflected that value. So why is the big my big question again, going back to what I’m talking about being inquisitive is you have to be inquisitive. You have to look at situations and try to find out You know, what’s causing that. And what we’ve come across is situations that there’s been that disconnect in value. And it’s because there’s a flawed strategy. It’s a it’s a capital structure that’s weak. Or it’s just a, you know, obviously a management governance issue that, you know, these guys aren’t doing the right things to enhance the business. So as I’ve come across that we’ve had, of course, discussions with these teams, number of different teams over the past my career and decades, it except sometimes you come across situations in which there’s tremendous value, you see a path to value, and yet, the management and even board does not agree with you. So that’s when you know, you have to become proactive, and that looks at changing boards and writing letters to the board and trying to manifest change and know except the processes that we’ve involved in and have occurred because we’ve had that pushback from teams down to a bowl was one that management team believe they were doing the right thing, obviously they were doing the wrong thing before that we own a company called entertainment one, which is listed in London, which recently has been acquired by Hasbro. You know, we ran activist campaign back in 2015. And the shares were like 150 pence and they got, you know, sold to Hasbro for 500 pence. And our view was, you know that management needs to alter their strategy. And a lot of times you just get these groups that are entrenched, and they have their own way of thinking. So being more proactive, I think is a valuable tool for us today. And it’s

Nathaniel E. Baker 20:31
what kind of situations then now and you mentioned earlier, the energy producers and where are you? Where are you seeing value and what types of situations are you getting involved with now?

David Neuhauser 20:42
Yeah, so so you know, energy we talked about? Obviously, before, we mentioned some things we’re involved in and what I’ve been saying I’ll say at least for a number of years has been you know, I have disliked shale I think this shale is just you know, as they talk about a treadmill and I viewpoint has always been I Want to own companies that can generate free cash flow and actually can build their production base but also can build the reserves. But mainly I want to see that cash flow and I want to see free cash flow. I want to know if I’m giving you my money and investing in the company, what am I getting in return from it. And in the past, mainly was shale it’s been more production more debt and for a short period of time it equated to a higher share price. So you had a bunch of institutional capital chase shale, which I thought would ultimately implode and today with lower prices, and and no financing around, you’re starting to see a number of shale situations implode and are, we’ve been making money on situations like I mentioned jadestone energy, which again, free cash flow company with zero debt, cash on their balance sheet, which is looking to do exactly what you should be doing in today’s environment, which is we’re trying to buy depressed operating assets, you know, acquire them, rationalize them, make them stronger, better. Generate free cash and and do it again and again and again. And that’s what you do in down cycles. And you want to be in that position with your balance sheet and with your management team where you could take advantage of distressed, you know, my view is I see myself as a distressed investor always. And I want to find situations that are mispriced or at least that the the the company in the management team is so focused on delivering value for their shareholders. And and those are the situations you want to be invested in something like jadestone. Other things we’ve mentioned, at least in the past have been things like this oil and gas, which is a player in Argentina, which we think is slowly opening up and we think there’s potential growth there. And that’s, you know, totally different business model. But the focus is on growth and again, they have a strong management team. And then there’s a few other companies. I won’t mention today because we’re involved in terms of doing research on which you know, so once you know it’s about a $400 million market, cap the others about a billion. And those are unique to because the goal for those companies very short term is to generate a lot of free cash flow, they’re mainly more of a fixed gas type investment, even something jadestone is focused on a bit of fixed gas as diversify away from oil, and the goal there again, these other companies that were involved in is to is to look to grow free cash flow and see a capital return and or value to the equity holders. So those are the situations I would focus on, at least in the energy space. And again, our theme Livermore remains we feel that you know, all the feds stimulus is going to create inflation to potential stagflation more that L shape which would be stagflation would be no growth, but yet prices are appreciating. And I think the things that are most scarce in the world today, which are things like you know, gold, which are things like you know, different commodities like copper and even oil to some degree, even though it looks like silver supplied today, because of The demand issue I think is that comes back and with less cap x, the potential for crude is actually very strong.

Nathaniel E. Baker 24:08
Mm hmm. You mentioned demand picture. I mean, is there a concern there that that could kind of go sideways? Or or drop even? Because if you are looking at an L shaped recovery or economy or what have you, where there is little economic expansion, especially from countries like China, which, as we know, is like the biggest consumer of things like copper and oil and such, is that a concern at all?

David Neuhauser 24:37
No, it is. And I think it’s always a concern. It’s just, you know, I think, again, you have to look at where you are in the cycle of things where you’re in a cycle on a macro basis for the global economy, and then where we are in terms of, you know, some of the supply demand dynamics at play. And one of the things that has occurred over the past even decade is we had this boom in commodities, you know, 10 plus years ago now it’s been a long time we were in oil over $100 a barrel and we had you know, copper, you know, $8000, $9,000 a ton things like that, and, and gold at $1800 an ounce. And, you know, we went through a decade in which all those prices were getting crushed and massive supply but you know, today’s a really interesting dynamic which the L shape creates like said low to no growth for the potential for a number of years to get through COVID to get through all the oversupply and and just Carnage that’s happening in you know, in the world today in terms of retail and commercial property, things like that. And of course, unemployment which is going to remain very high looks like for at least a number of years. But the thing is, if you look at a number of these commodities, you know, you need the demand but the one thing you know the opposite. The other aspect of the cycle is supply and you’re seeing so much less capital investment in these businesses, and gold mining business and copper, etc, and even oil now, which we’ve seen more and more pullback catbacks. And eventually, with an increase in demand over time, which again could still be 234 years away, you will start to see a very tight supply demand picture and therefore prices will, will be much higher. So I’m not necessarily banking on demand to come back in a massive fashion. I just think that the supply demand dynamics, the equilibrium is going to get really close very quickly. And I think ultimately, the demand is going to outstrip what’s out there and supply and that’s mainly the lack of investment.

Nathaniel E. Baker 26:42
Interesting. Okay. Well, that’s it that’s a bit of a contrarian theory there

David Neuhauser 26:45
big picture. It was kind of how to look at things. You know, we look at macro micro situations on specific companies, like in our space. And I think big picture still, you know, I would say that, you know, we think there’ll still be this massive Have reset in terms of markets today, again, not being a very big bear, I’m just saying is that ultimately fundamentals will take hold. And at occurs, we’ll see, you know, we should see further grinding to the downside on a number of, I’d say high priced high value sectors of the market. And I think those that remain undervalued or I would say, at least fairly valued, could be interesting situations to invest in. And that’s kind of how we’re looking at things at Livermore. But again, we’re focused on those special situations that we can get involved in either from an activist standpoint, or just because it’s a value situation where we think there’s great value and investment opportunity over the years.

Nathaniel E. Baker 27:46
What can you tell us about your process as far as finding these opportunities? Like how does it to start with a simple screen or how does it how do you go about that?

David Neuhauser 27:54
Yeah, so that’s a great question. And I would say it’s a number of things. One is, uh, you know, I research a lot of different aspects mainly and things I understand. I think, you know, both Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger, always talk about stick to your knitting kind of stick to the things you understand. So Livermore we focus mainly on eo industrials, energy and financials. So my history even on the activist side has been on the financials has been on energy has been on materials and mining. So I’m sticking to that knitting though, you know, we have gone a little bit outside of that. So you know, the the entertainment one activist position we had a few years ago is more media. We ran an activist process to help change at Burberry, which is a luxury, you know, goods company and so to me, it’s like, I’m trying to find situations that are just really unique and maybe misunderstood at the time. So our research process, I would say is not vanilla. It’s really I’m looking at, you know, I’m just scouring kind of the universe. Looking for special situations. So one is I’m looking at the universe in terms of what is our knitting of, you know, the type of business that we invest in, which is mainly small cap since we’re a small fund, but then I’m also looking at sort of special situations that are one off, and they could be larger companies too. And, you know, we have to we partnered with, with groups as well. And so it kind of ranges but you know, typically, it’s screening and then and then really digging in to the metrics to having conversations with the management team, to having conversations with even some of the institutional investors of that company, some of the things I’m actually doing right as we as we speak, and that’ll decide then ultimately, are those things that are fit for investment. And then of course, you want to look at the overall market dynamic of where you want to invest in timing. So it’s easy to say you know, a good idea there’s nothing to say well, where should we be invested at what valuation right so that you know, you’re buying at the right prices and that all is a business More art than science, I would say. But the process in general is pretty standard as far as you know, finding finding unique situations engaging and going through the potential positives and negatives of the situation. And then also you know how how that value is going to ultimately be unlocked. And then lastly, something people don’t talk about is exit how are you going to exit when are you going to exit and that’s one of the biggest things that I think people have always had trouble with. I’ve had trouble with that time just do you know staying with things too long that are not working and then of course situations are doing really well holding on for the long time but you know, I think you just have to look at making you know, the best value and best decisions you can at the time with the information you have and move from there.

Nathaniel E. Baker 30:48
Yeah, at what point do you what if there is like a stop loss? Like is there a deep put stop losses on these things? Like how much are you willing to stomach here on an idea before because the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent type of thing. Right? Like,

David Neuhauser 31:04
yeah, that’s exactly right. So I when I try to look at as I try not to let market forces dictate decisions, I try and look for whether or not you know the fundamentals of the company support the price, meaning you can get a bad piece of news from a company, right and the stock price could drop 20 30%. And that might be a phenomenal opportunity to actually buy more shares if you own it or just to get involved at that point. And I’ve done that in the past. Same thing with the upside, you might get great news out of a company and you own the stock and it’s gone up well, and you’re you know, you’re thinking everything’s wonderful, that might be the perfect time to start to unwind that position. So you know, you really have to focus on the fundamentals and and realize, you know, look from a both technical reason look from the fundamental reason to look from a cyclical reason to where you are, so a lot of things we invest in typically have been cyclical in nature, like, you know, energy and gold and copper and things like that. And when you’re investing in those companies, just like in financials, they tend to run cycles, there’s, you know, financials, there’s credit word spans and economy expands, and their balance sheet does well, and they make a lot of cash and they buy shares back. And then there’s bad times fernet, or financials like right now, where all of a sudden their balance sheets are being tested very, in a very harsh fashion. So what I’m trying to say is, you know, we’ll look for situations that typically, that are distressed situations, or a time in which no one wants to be in those situations when we want to buy them. And when everyone wants to own them. Those are the times we usually kind of get out of those situations. Yeah, we want to buy it where we think is discount to fair value and we want to sell at or well above fair value, but it’s again, art more art than science.

Nathaniel E. Baker 32:49
Mm hmm. Interesting. You did you mentioned financial, but it’s not something that from the sound a bit that you’re very involved in now or you’re not excited about that sector?

David Neuhauser 32:58
I’m not today. I think the positive again, if you’re an investor is the balance sheets of those banks have been, have been a lot stronger today than in history, right. And since the last financial crisis we’ve had or even the one before that, I mean, there’s been a number of them and at least my career. And so that’s the positive. But still, you know, the whole idea is, again, you’d want to invest in those companies when you think you’ve hit sort of the trough. And you’re actually going to see a path of sort of escape velocity where where things are going to get better loan loss provisions are actually on the downtrend and economic growth is on the uptrend, and there’s things that are going to create you know, better value and and better earnings for those companies and increase book value. And, you know, today I don’t see that occurring. I think that we’re still in a bloodletting mode. And like I said, unlike past cycles, even Oh, wait, oh nine, I do think this cycles, you know, it’s gonna last I mean, The good news is I think that historically, the economy has withstood a number of things thrown at it. So I try I’m trying to be optimistic and think about the next you know, several years out. But when I look at the valuations of companies today and I look at what I think could happen, it just for many companies like I’m saying in the market today, it just doesn’t make sense I wouldn’t I want to invest in those and that’s why we’re looking at you know, alternative situations to invest in and things like gold and or other aspects.

Nathaniel E. Baker 34:36
Fair enough. All right. In closing, maybe you just tell our listeners how they can find more about you. I know you’re pretty active on Twitter, @LivermoreOps?

David Neuhauser 34:47
Yeah, our Twitter handle is @LivermoreOps. And we have a website and, and there’s information for accredited investors on there as well. They’re interested in our our fund, and our investment style and, you know, that’s that’s how you can get a hold of me I’m pretty open, for the most part to talk to people who are interested in doing things and you know, share a lot of passion for investing and have a longer timeframe as far as letting things unfold. So, you know, that’s how we’ve always been focused. That’s how I’ve always been focused in terms of my strategy, which, you know, Livermore is mainly me and a small support group. But we have a really strong Rolodex of I would say, more high influential people that I talked to that are obviously in business, we have, you know, people that are LPs of our fund that are within, you know, private equity and other hedge funds and other areas of business. So, you know, I’m able to bounce a lot of ideas off of some people that are really focused and really in the trenches in terms of company specific, and I think that helps a lot as far as the sort of competitive advantage that we have at Livermore over Some even bigger funds. And, you know, the goal is to keep pushing hard and keep working hard. And again, be humble and try to do well for investors over time.

Nathaniel E. Baker 36:09
Well, and I’ll put those links into the show notes as long along with the the video of the and the presentation that you gave that our investing summit, our virtual investing summit a couple of weeks ago, where you went into a little more detail on some of these names. Yeah, and that’s been out there for a while and has been very interesting, but I’ll put the link in there again. Awesome. David Neuhauser, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you all for listening. And we look forward to speaking to you again next time.

Moderator 36:40
Thank you for listening to the Contrarian Investor Podcast. We hope you enjoy this episode. To subscribe to this podcast. Simply open your favorite podcast software and search for contrarian investor. Follow us on social media by searching for contrarian investor on Twitter and Instagram. Send us your thoughts on We look forward to speaking to you again next time.

Leave a Reply